Doranna Durgin
Author
The August '97 Q&A
Panelist The Brave New World of Publishing
The March '98 Q&A
The August '98 Q&A
TechCyberC Hi Tam! Tonight's guest is Doranna Durgin, Fantasy Author. Join us to talk to Doranna!
Doranna Me!
Tam Hi, Doranna
Doranna (G) Hi
Tam Gonna look for the Chicks book
Doranna The Chicks book is fun.
TechCyberC Is that a new one, Doranna?
Doranna THat's the Chicks in Chainmail antho sequel.
Tam the mere title, "Bitch in Time" makes it worth going after LOL
Doranna Not mine--Esther Friesner edited it. [wicked g] I quite enjoyed that title.
TechCyberC I'm familiar with it just did a mind glitch.
Doranna I thought you were...
TechCyberC Indeed when I first heard of it I thought they were messing with me.
BG1818 I made it.
TechCyberC Hi BG! Tonight's guest is Doranna Durgin, Fantasy Author. Join us to talk to Doranna!
Doranna No, indeed, that's just Esther messing with EVERYBODY.
BG1818 Esther F.?
Doranna yup
Tam I got to meet Beth at World Con.
Doranna We're talking about the Chicks in Chainmail anthos
BG1818 Hello! Yes I was there.
Doranna So was I. Still trying to get my brain back in working gear!
TechCyberC Just kind of warming up before we nail her down on her view of the world.
BG1818 I know Esther but I don't think I've met you Doranna.
Doranna Well, not by your screen name, anyway...
TechCyberC Doranna writes some wonderfull fantasy, BG.
BG1818 I'm Beth Gwinn. Do you subscribe to Locus?
Doranna I was mostly lurking at this con. I'll be at Albacon in October, though. Yes, and I know your name, but couldn't say exactly from where.
TechCyberC For the latest information on Doranna Durgin, visit her web site at: http://www.sff.net/people/doranna/
BG1818 I'll be at World Fantasy in Montrery CA.
Doranna Too far for me.
BG1818 I'm the Locus photographer these days.
Doranna Ah! That would be it.
BG1818 Most of the covers are my photos.
Tam Beth has the cutest glasses, too
BG1818 Tim Powers.
Doranna Tim Powers, what?
BG1818 Stephen Baxter
Doranna Oh, the photos.
BG1818 I did the photos on the covers of Locus.
Doranna Left me behind there for a sec
BG1818 Thank you Tam. I like to be different and one way is to have different glasses.
Doranna blame it on post-worldcon daze
Tam I'm sitting here thinking about being paid to go to Cons
crbaryon Hi Gang
TechCyberC Hi Baryon! Tonight's guest is Doranna Durgin, Fantasy Author. Join us to talk to Doranna!
Doranna What kind of glasses are they?
BG1818 I will be at Dragoncon this upcoming Sept.
TechCyberC LOL you like that concept, Tam?
Doranna I wasn't paid to go to WC, that's for sure.
BG1818 Small and oval and green.
Doranna Hi, Baryon!
crbaryon Alright Beth, can't wait to meet you
BG1818 I look forward to meeting you as well Barry.
Doranna My glasses are...normalish.
TechCyberC So Doranna I hear you have a new book coming out?
BG1818 Who's publishing your new book Doranna?
Doranna Yup, it's OUT! Baen. They've done all my books so far, but I hope to branch out a little soon.
TechCyberC Is that important? Having more than one publisher?
Doranna I think it gives an author more options. It also gives us a little more strength. Right now, with Baen as the only one publishing my books, they hold more cards when it comes to contract negotiations.
crbaryon WOLF JUSTICE is the title btw
Doranna Thanks--yes, that's it. It sold out at WC, so that made me happy.
TechCyberC Oh so you'd like a tug of war eh?
BG1818 Do you live close to Baltimore?
Doranna I'm in western NY. Nice short flight.
BG1818 If I would have seen you Doranna I would have ask to take your photo.
Doranna Ooh, and I would have said Please Do!
BG1818 Well, maybe next year. World Fantasy I think is in Providence, RI.
crbaryon Beth's a terrific photographer
BG1818 Thank you Barry.
Doranna Really? That's good news. I'll have to check the con listings, and get my membership. It's much more worth my time to make it to WFC than WC, anyway.
BG1818 I think it is next year. I get the years confused.
Doranna I just know it's out of range this year, wherever it is.'
TechCyberC From your viewpoint what's the best part of Cons, Doranna?
Doranna Schmoozing!
BG1818 It's in California. The other side of the country.
TechCyberC Making contacts?
Doranna I like meeting people, and chatting....
BG1818 Do you like schomoozing????? I don't do it.
Doranna making contacts is good, but so is simply meeting people. Well, I'm not a heavy-duty schmoozer.
BG1818 I like meeting people and being nice but when people aren't nice to me I just stay away from them.
Doranna I mean, light shcmoozing. oops, tyops.
TechCyberC Folks feel free to ask Doranna your questions just give her a chance to answer them before the next one. (G)
BG1818 It was fun at World Con to meet the people that I had only chatted with.
crbaryon tyops make a lot of fun around here
Tam Hey, Tech, you may have some competition here.
Doranna At WC I met a number of editors I hadn't met before, and that always makes the trip worthwhile.
TechCyberC LOL we've practiced typos before.
dreamer What's your scariest experience at a Con?
Doranna But I also just like seeing my friends... Being on a panel and having brain zone-out. duhhhhh
TechCyberC Sounds like the best of both worlds. Good friends and good biz.
dreamer yikes...
BG1818 I do that do but I'm not on a panel when I do it.
Doranna Yeah, it's great to drool in front of an audience.
dreamer me neither...beth
TechCyberC :::wipes keyboard off:::
Doranna It's only happened a couple of times...I get nervous and lose perfectly ordinary words.
Tam lol
Doranna Like "manuscript".... (ack)
crbaryon Doranna will add your book to Walden list and try to get it reviewed in my next issue
Doranna Yes! I like reviews
crbaryon Baen doesn't do many review copies anymore
TechCyberC Is this a brand new universe or a return to one of the earlier worlds?
Doranna WOLF JUSTICE is a sequel to TOUCHED BY MAGIC, but it's stand-alone.
TechCyberC Cool.
Doranna I'm really excited about it; I hope it goes over well.
TechCyberC Doranna do you see large changes in publishing in general?
TechCyberC What with the intenet and all?
Doranna Well, there's some more talk of on-demand publishing and that could have a big impact on writer contracts
TechCyberC Machine that spits out a book?
Doranna or, at least, on the need for some changes. Yes, basically.
TechCyberC They tried that with music.
Doranna Yes, and they're starting it with books. Can't remember which publisher just started looking into it--Tor, I think, but I wouldn't swear to it.
BG1818 That's interesting. I like to read and I follow certain authors but on demand?
TechCyberC Sounds like a Tor project to me.
Doranna Anyway, it'll make the OOP clause in contracts pretty useless.
TechCyberC OOP?
Doranna We'll have to fight for new reversion clauses. Out Of Print.
BG1818 Well Tor owes me money.
Doranna If a book is OOP for a certain length of time, the rights revert to the author. But pubs are already quite adept at sidestepping that, by calling things out of stock.
dreamer oh...that's a good thing right?
Doranna Imagine if they sold 2 books a year for ten years, but wouldn
BG1818 Does that mean they will no longer revert to the author?
Doranna t reprint and ship to stores.
TechCyberC That's so publishers don't keep something out of print?
Doranna Well, so that you have the right to sell it elsewhere if they don't keep it IN print.
TechCyberC So it's always in print if you can get it on demand. Scary.
Doranna Exactly! We'll have to stay on top of that one.
crbaryon Theres already a couple of places on the net to download books for $3 or $4
BG1818 I don't know if I like that idea.
Doranna Yeah, that's another thing altogether
BG1818 I think the author should own the rights.
Doranna Major pubs aren't doing that.... yet. Oh, there'll be quite a squabble over it when it happens.
crbaryon Piers Anthony has a couple of his that way because no one wanted to pub them
Doranna But lots of pubs already try to sneak it into their boilerplates.
TechCyberC Sounds like a need for something like what music does have.
Doranna whats that? Yes, I knew PA had some books available out there somewhere.
TechCyberC Oh can't think of the name but it's the music copywrite companies.
Doranna ARen't those books that went OOP?
dreamer Once a book is bought by a movie company....can the rights ever be reverted back to the author?
Doranna I dunno about that...I think they buy an option, and it only lasts for so long. But I've never had to deal with it.
crbaryon One is called VOLKS about World War 2 and a German, American and Quaker and its affects on them
dreamer oh..just thinking
Doranna Don't hurt yourself@!
TechCyberC ROFL
Doranna heh sorry, reflex
crbaryon Movies usually have a time limit on ownership, depends on the contract
dreamer bout Anne Rice's Interview w/ a Vampire
BG1818 That was a big time contract.
Doranna Oh, that DOES hurt.
BG1818 What hurts?
TechCyberC I'm thinking an author would love to have those kind of problems.
Doranna The film. Watching it. Not a fan.
dreamer my fault I'm doing my nails...and typing was delayed..(G)
Doranna Yeah, movie options are usually for quite a nice sum. Especially compared to paperback advances!
dreamer not a fan of Rice or BigNose
crbaryon Mike Bishop sold BRITTLE INNINGS to Schwanaggers company, but I think theyt revert if not made in 3 years
dreamer ?
TechCyberC How would you feel about how movies would typically change your work?
BG1818 I don't read Rice either.
Doranna That wouild be tough. Beth, no--i tried. Thought I should. Just couldn't.
BG1818 I read Interview with a Vampire back in the 70's when it first came out.
Doranna I think an author really has to divorce herself from what might happen to her work in movie form.
TechCyberC Would that be like having a cover that doesn't match the book? Having a movie change things?
Doranna Consider it a nephew or niece of the original work...
crbaryon Dorann, who do you read for pleasure?
dreamer sounds good Dor
TechCyberC Good outlook.
Doranna Well, not as much. Because sometimes the movie title is changed, and sometimes the author's name is only in small letters stuck in the credits somewhere.... I'm reading a book by Lynn Flewelling right now, and enjoying it much. But for a break, I usually find a good romance. Otherwise, my internal editor spends too much time making comments as i read, so it's not a break./
crbaryon Have you seen Danielle Steels KLONE book?
TechCyberC ROFL Editor in waiting.
Doranna Well, I said GOOD romance.
crbaryon ROFL
Doranna Lynn's book is Fantasy; it's rare that I have such a good time with a fantasy that I can just enjoy it.
TechCyberC Folks feel free to ask Doranna your questions just give her a chance to answer them before the next one. (G)
Doranna In this case my editor is at work, but muted,
TechCyberC So you'd recomend her work?
Doranna based on this one book, yes. I think she has only two out, and it's the first two of a trilogy. There are a number of fantasy authors I enjoy for different reasons...I like Stackpole, but it's more for sheer admiration of his worlds and plots than the writing craft.
TechCyberC So that'd be more concept than art?
BG1818 I've meet Michael and photographed him. Seems to be a nice guy.
Doranna yes, I guess so. Oh, he's stand-up. Good People.
crbaryon Have you read any of Parke Godwin's?
Doranna Not for a long time. It's a bit wordy for me. I don't tend to go for big long thick works
TechCyberC That's something I've wondered about...
Doranna And I don't really like it when I have to refer to a map or glossery every five minutes in order to figure out what's going on. But some people like that.
BG1818 I haven't read any of Parke Godwin. I photographed but haven't read him.
crbaryon Thats a problem with reveiwing on schedule, too many thick ones and not enough thin ones to balance out
Doranna Tech, what? LOL!
TechCyberC Why a lot of fantasys are short to normal lenght then you get these forest killer types. With little in between.
Doranna Eh, Wolf Justice is sort of in between. Good solid 150,000 words.
TechCyberC Sounds good.
Doranna Most "short" fantasies are around 100,000. But right now the market is better for something a little bigger.
TechCyberC At least compared to Jorden. (G)
crbaryon Average hardcover length in 1970 was 212 pages, 1980 was 396 and 1990 was 502
Doranna Myself, I don't want to invest the time into 10 thick volumes.
TechCyberC I'm going to have to eat a lot of jokes I ever meet him. (G)
Doranna (page count doesn't....count. Formatting makes too much difference) I don't watch 4 night mini-series, either!
TechCyberC Do authors get input into that?
Doranna Into which?
TechCyberC Fonts and format?
Doranna No, not at all.
crbaryon true, they could save some trees, but they think they need the pages to charge $25 and up
Doranna I know my typesetter, and I've been able to let her know how much I like the little scene break dingbats she uses, but that's not typical. Barry, yup!
TechCyberC I like those too.
Doranna She started those with me because I wrote JESS without any chapter breaks.
TechCyberC Also like a well bound book for what that's worth but I don't hold the bindings against the authors.
Doranna Naw, no point in that. Or holding the cover quality against us...BARRENLANDS has really had to overcome a lot, the way that covewr was printed. Ye-uck. Booksellers complain to me.
TechCyberC Really?
Doranna Uh huh
TechCyberC Would you want input into that kind of thing if you could?
Doranna it's a bad job. I wish they'd reprinted. Into the typesetting? I don't think so.
TechCyberC Covers bindings whatever.
Doranna I've got enough to think about, and the publishers have many reasons for using the typesetting that they do, whatever format they're using. I don't think my druthers would count very much against those reasons, even if I had the input, and I'm not sure I would want them to.
crbaryon Just got LORD OF THE FANTASTIC, stories in honor of Zelazny has shades of grey, black and white outline of his face, not a good cover at all imho
Doranna As for covers, all I really ask for is that they're accurate, and good art.
dreamer Yikes..what happened?
Doranna But just asking for accuracy seems to be too much....
TechCyberC ROFL
BG1818 Hey I picked that one up at the World con.
crbaryon Can't all have a Whelan cover
Doranna Everyone thinks Ehren is a midget....Not the image I was going for.
TechCyberC I'm still thinking of castles.
Doranna Sigh.
TechCyberC (G) But it's a good story anyway. (G)
Doranna Hey, just occurred to me to mention my WJ contest... I'm running it from my web page.
TechCyberC For the latest information on Doranna Durgin, visit her web site at: http://www.sff.net/people/doranna/
Doranna Get a free, signed copy of any of my books if you win! (enthusiastic annoucner's voice)
JanCyberC LOL! Wonderful.
BG1818 So what do you have to do? In the contest.
Doranna [eg] Gotta read the book, to start. And then guess which scene happened to me.
TechCyberC Does ESP count?
Doranna It's one of the exciting ones, too.
BG1818 So you took a scene from real life and inserted it into a fantasy book?
Doranna If you guess it by ESP, you deserve the book. more or less. It fit, or I wouldn't have done it...I was starting to write the scene and I realized it would fit in. Of course, I DID alter it.
TechCyberC Might be more fun to guess how you altered it. (G)
Doranna Oh, it'd be obvious if you knew which scene.
TechCyberC So does the "real world" come into play much in your work?
Doranna Not usually. This was quite an unusual thing for me to have done.
TechCyberC I think I asked last time about horses.
Doranna Yes.
TechCyberC You do good horses BTW.
Doranna And I do sneak in horse personalities that I've known, but only walk-ons. Thanks! I used a friend's dog's name in WJ, but that's just a tuckerism. Everyone does that!
TechCyberC Is there a danger in personalizing animals and objects in stories?
Doranna And I'm working on a proposal in which there's a horse, and I'm going to use my horse for the personality. That should be fun. The danger is in getting too caught up in it.
TechCyberC Oh I hope you get to do that one.
Doranna Not letting the story be what it needs to be, because you're trying to preserve what you know of reality. I see that a lot in the work I critique (I run a crit service). You can always tell when someone's basing something on a "real life" incident and they've let it get in the way of the story.
Tam Ah, that's why your internal editor is hard to shut down
TechCyberC Like a bubble in the story?
Doranna [wry g] Yeah. Tech, say again>
TechCyberC Doesn't match?
Doranna No, just that...
BG1818 That's interesting. I've never thought about that.
TechCyberC Oh the real life incident just doesn't merge properly?
Doranna Well, the details are written out of proportion to their importance in the story. Or it's contrived.
TechCyberC (Guess what I'll be looking for now (G))
Doranna Hard to explain more than that; it's a feel that I haven't had to define before.
TechCyberC I think I've seen it and wondered.
BG1818 yes I'll be looking for it too.
Tam I think I've seen some of those and just didn't know what they were
Doranna It rarely makes it to published work, aside from characters. You've probably definitely seen it in characters...the walk-on who's a little too well defined...
BG1818 I don't know if I've seen them or not but I will check and find out.
TechCyberC Yeah I see that a lot with stuff guys write. The perfect woman thing. Which is probably just an image and not the reality.
Doranna If you're reading along and suddenly realize you're waiting to understand more about a character, and you never see it, that's probably why. Your expectations have been set by the amount of detail given, only it was a miscue.
TechCyberC Wait am I doing it? :::thwacks self:::
Doranna The perfect woman thing is something else again.
TechCyberC ROFL
Doranna That's just boring....
TechCyberC How important do you consider characters to your work?
Doranna The utmost! The reason for being! (not able to spell the French phrase!)
TechCyberC More important than plot even?
Doranna The reason for creating the plot.
Tam What good is a plot if you don't really care
Doranna For ME, mind you. It's different for everyone. Good point, Tam. But I usually come across a character, and then I have to figure out why they are the way they are, and where they're going as a person...and how they'll deal with the worst challenges I can throw at them. That's where the plot part comes in...
TechCyberC So the plot is an exeorcise in reactions sort of.
Doranna Not sure I would put it that way.
TechCyberC Interesting take I'd never looked at it that way.
Doranna The plot creates the challenges that the characters have to deal with. The plot is what puts the characters in jeopardy, or gives them something to have at stake. Having that approach to it all is why it's hard for me to write huge scopey books. Which, unfortunately, are what it takes to break out of the mid-list.
BG1818 That is scary. I hate those big padded books that say so little. I avoid trilogies.
TechCyberC So the publisher have their formulas and stick to it as much as they can? How does one break through that?
Doranna No, not formulas. Trends, though. Right now, the trend is for big.
BG1818 Have enough money to do what you want.
Doranna I'm working on it--trying to do it MY way. Beth, that would be nice.
BG1818 Yes it would be wouldn't it. I haven't found how to get that either.
Doranna Bigger scope doesn't necessarily mean longer.
TechCyberC So lots of sells of smaller books = fewer sales of longer books?
Doranna ??
TechCyberC Pagewise
Doranna not sure of your logic
BG1818 I have one friend who is an author who has done it his way but he is a different sort or writer.
Doranna Who's that? Tech, if you mean, were sales of smaller books or stand-alones to go through the roof, would the trends change, then I expect so.
BG1818 Joe Lansdale. He's not fantasy more horror. More mystery too.
Doranna Oh, I'm not up on horror writers. Heck, I can barely keep up with fantasy!
TechCyberC That'd be one way of doing it was what I meant to ask... yes. (G) Sorry
Doranna Alas. Tech, you mean I managed to answer you?
TechCyberC Very well, Doranna.
Doranna (G)
BG1818 He's not a big name. He has more of a select follower of critics and others.
Doranna Well, more power to him if he's bucking trends and doing it his way. Who publishes him? Or is he into shorts.
TechCyberC So it's not just pure sales? I'm a little confused on how else you impress publishers.
Doranna I don't think there is any other way, actually.
BG1818 He's now with the Warner Mystery publisher.
Doranna Awards are good, but only as a means to increase sales...
BG1818 His books are small and he has sold them repeatedly for movie options but nothing is on the big screen yet.
Doranna In the past you might find a publisher who liked what you werre doing and was willing to build you, but as far as I know, DAW is the only pub who really does that much any more.
TechCyberC Name reqinition(sic)
Doranna Tor is really good, but wants you at a certain level to start with.
crStarlit hi all
TechCyberC Tonight's guest is Doranna Durgin, Fantasy Author. Join us to talk to Doranna!
Doranna Hi!
crStarlit what's been covered so far?
TechCyberC So Tor want's an author that's already there?
Doranna publishing chatter, mostly.
crStarlit ah. anybody asked any writerly questions yet?
TechCyberC ROFL Star. Some.
Doranna Well, in terms of maturity of writing, as opposed to taking a "young" writer with spark and helping them grow. But the market doesn't really allow that any more.
TechCyberC But ask.
Doranna Oh, ask. Writerly questions are good.
crStarlit oh, I wondered if you subscribed to that idea service in Poughkeepsie...
Doranna ?? I get my ideas at Kmart
crStarlit everybody else does, I hear
Doranna Blue light specials.
crStarlit ah. discounted
Doranna Not to mention a heavy reliance on dreams.
TechCyberC I got an idea for a cattle stampied that way once.
Doranna Those can be pricey, though. stampede?
TechCyberC LOL yes.
Doranna How do you get an idea for a cattle stampede?
TechCyberC Blue light special.
crStarlit Tech's keyboard doesn't spell too well
Doranna My idea would be: run!
crStarlit got that right
TechCyberC Like I think so fast.
Doranna My keyboard has its moments, too. I'm really fast on that backspace.
crStarlit do you have any particular rituals or habits in your writing?
Doranna Like bowing three times to my computer before I start?
crStarlit something like that, or offering a sacrifice to the muse
Doranna I listen to music while I write, generally. That's about it.
TechCyberC Oh! What kind of music?
Doranna The muse gets B movies now and then. They have some good ideas done so badly that she wants to do them RIGHT, and that gives her lots of material to chew on. Soundtracks. Classical. Dramatic music with nice strong themes.
crStarlit Wagner?
Doranna I guess my rituals would be setting up the directories for new projects...trying to rev up the inertia to get started... No, that's got words.
JanCyberC No words in the background...too distracting?
Doranna Distracts me. Occasionally I listen to PHANTOM, but usually for revisions or such. Jan, right.
crStarlit Wagner doesn't necessarily have the words with it
TechCyberC Nice to know getting started is a key point with you too.
Doranna Ah. Well, that's my ignorance. I stick to...oh, I can't spell it. Getting started is the hardest! I like movie soundtracks, mostly. I've got a 6 cd changer with cartridges, and I set up my cartrdges with different types of music.
crStarlit What got you interested in this genre?
Doranna The endless things you can do withit. IT allows for more flexibility in the situations you set up for your characters. Besides I guess I like the thought of magic. If I must admit it.
crStarlit No shame there. I'm a fan of magic, too
Doranna But I really like the idea of playing in my own worlds.
TechCyberC You'd like to live in a world with magic or dare I say it? More magic?
Doranna Some of the things I like to do with characters, it takes magic. Not sure if I would.
crStarlit more magic?
TechCyberC (G) Star
Doranna I'm sure it'd be more dangerous than I'd like. Not that it's not dangerous enough in this one.
crStarlit but here there's a built-in time delay
Doranna There are elements of almost-magic in this world that I'd like to see come to fruition. Built-in time delay?
JanCyberC Like?
Doranna Like the way I can =almost= talk to my animals.
crStarlit it takes a bit of time for a conjured image to manifest physically
Doranna You know--you start to carry on a conversation, and you see it =almost= happen, and then you lose it. I guess it'd be to do with animal and nature stuff, mostly. I sure do wonder what Duncan would say, if he could, sometimes.
TechCyberC Some authors do that to me.
Doranna Although he says, "I'm a good boy." and "I'm special,
JanCyberC Ah. Know what you mean about animals talking, though mine seem stuck with the word "no". LOL
Doranna "very well already
TechCyberC Almost make me see something profound.
Doranna Jan, LOL!
TechCyberC My pitt bull does talk. But that's a whole 'nother chat. (G)
Doranna I reckon so! My hound tries to beam thoughts into my head. "Take me with you." You can see the smoke coming out of his ears.
TechCyberC ROFL mine is stuck on "feed me" and "Leave so I can sleep"
Doranna He's deaf, but now he does hand signals. He reads lips, too, if it has to do with food or "good boy."
TechCyberC Amria Sign eh?
Doranna Or "sit". He can read that one. Doranna sign, mostly.
TechCyberC Cool. Sounds like he might make a story all his own.
Doranna He did. Kind of. He was the model for Shiba, in some ways. The Bitch story. But not in her personality, just in her hound ways.
TechCyberC That comes back to how much to use of real life things again doesn't it?
Doranna It does. I hadn't thought of that one when you asked the questin.
TechCyberC So it might be too much to use the full personality?
Doranna Yes, definitely. To be true to him, I couldn't be true to the story.
TechCyberC But ok to use some stereotypical things that animal does?
Doranna A character has to be free to develop. Wouldn't say stereotypical. Just characteristic.
TechCyberC Oh much better stated.
Doranna For Shiba, it was the way she was devoted to trail. Even when the trail leads up a tree. What happens from there is for the story. I guess that's why I don't much think I use real life things....because the emphasis is on the fictional thing.
TechCyberC Might it be dangerious to look too closely at the jeni? (G)
Doranna So I never do truly base an entire character on any one person or animal. Even for the horse I'm planning to mold on Duncan, there's going to be a time when I have to let it do its own thing. say what? jeni?
TechCyberC Oh I was asking is it dangerious to look to closely at how writting is done. Used jeni in place of muse.
Doranna Well, you can get tangled up in it. Paralyze yourself.
crStarlit genie or jinni
Doranna got ya.
TechCyberC LOL thanks Star!
Doranna You know, think too hard. (G) Sometimes you just have to let it happen.
TechCyberC Same as me and sports.
crStarlit get out of your own way, as it were
TechCyberC For what that's worth.
Doranna So I might take the essence of a character, but then have to let it happen. Yes, I thought too hard when I ran track, and it got in the way.
TechCyberC There's a kind of beauty in that Doranna.
Doranna Star, right
TechCyberC The thought of letting it grow.
Doranna Yes, isn't there? It's exciting when it happens. Sherran did that in BARRENLANDS. Had to promise the woman a sequel in which she'd have a much larger role in order to keep her in hand.
TechCyberC That's something that fascinates me. How an author feels about their stories.
Doranna (Baen's deciding whether to take it right now.)
JanCyberC LOLOL! Wonderful!
Doranna Wonderful, if they take it... (G) About their stories, or their characters?
JanCyberC Yep. But wonderful too that your characters are so realized for you that you have to talk them into smaller roles in a story.
TechCyberC Both actually.
Doranna JAn, yes. Sherran took me totally by surprise. it happened with a character in WJ, too, but I think I got him under control. I =think=. Didn't have to promise him another book, but discovered there might be one lurking, anyway.
TechCyberC Some author presented a book as what I had to cut out of the other book. Kind of cracked me up.
Doranna come again? They wrote a book and then had to cut enough that it turned out to be another whole book?
TechCyberC Right.
Doranna Whew.
JanCyberC LOL...that's a heck of a lot of cutting.
Doranna yeah!
TechCyberC I'm not sure how serious they were. I forget who it was.
Doranna Well, sometimes you can cut out small sub-plots that do indeed hold the potential for a book, but weren't actually written out that way in the first place...
JanCyberC Folks turn novelettes and short stories into novels quite a bit. I could see how it could happen. Having to cut out a chapter or two could spawn another novel.
Doranna Exactly.
TechCyberC Doranna I want to thank you for a wonderfull chat tonight!
crStarlit but they freqauently feel "stuffed"
Doranna Spawn. I like that. Yeah, tech, it's been fun.
JanCyberC Yes, Doranna....absolutely wonderful time again...as usual.
Doranna Now I suppose I have to work. Nuts.
JanCyberC You're a great guest!
TechCyberC Once again some great insights!
Doranna [blush]
JanCyberC LOLOL.
TechCyberC Let's give Doranna a big hand!
Doranna ACTION looks frightened. How big a hand? Is it disembodied?
JanCyberC ACTION applauds Doranna politely, ::pok pok pok:::
crStarlit ACTION looking for Paul Bunyan
Doranna LOL!
TechCyberC ROFL!
Techyo Doranna I'm interested in what drew you to write fantasy?
JanCyberC Doranna, I remember you from SF/Fantasy Writer's Workshop in the Writer's area what was it...3 years ago?
Doranna Gosh, I've lost track. At least. I strayed, alas
JanCyberC LOL...yes, I'm interested too...why fantasy?
Doranna Ah, I missed that question. Sorry. Been away from chats too long! I find that I want to do certain things with my characters. In order to do those things, I need to be able to manipulate my settings a bit. Fantasy is the most conducive to that
Techyo LOL I like that great answer!
Doranna For me, anyway. Perhaps if I were entirely comfortable with all the aspects of this modern world, I'd be writing mainstream...
JanCyberC .:::shiver:::
Doranna Well, Techyo, I have to admit that I like playing with fantasy elements just because, too. [g]
Techyo [G] Sounds like the same reason I read fantasy.
AtvarHsial Same here
Doranna I find I actually read less fantasy these days. I spend too much time analyzing it to be able to relax with it!
AtvarHsial What are you reading right now?
Doranna Hmm. Lots. Research, all the time. For brain candy I've gotten into romances.
AtvarHsial Do you read, "just for fun"?
Doranna Once you find a few good authors, you're set. And since I have several as friends, I'm set!
JanCyberC Doranna...in you book Dun Lady's Jess, which won the Compton Crook/Stephen Tall award for the best first book in the fantasy, science fiction, and horror genres, your protagonist is a horse in human form...
Techyo Ok if they're friends I forgive you.
Doranna [g]
JanCyberC this is fascinating...how did you approach the character?
Doranna It's not all bad, honest...Okay, Jess...I didn't have to work too hard at it. My characters tend to spring into my mind fully formed. I know what they'll do and how they'll react to this or that after just a little while of working with them. With Jess, I started off with the horse character...and the human version acted accordingly. Took a lot of horse-sense, I suppose
Techyo So it's based in part on your own horse?
JanCyberC LOLOL. Did you pull on your experience with your own horse? GMTA.
Doranna Terrible job, researching that horse sense. Actually, no At the time I wrote JESS, I had just lost my mare Horseless! Aurgh!
Techyo Didn't that make writting it hard?
Doranna And my mare wasn't much like Jess. Not actually...because of what I just said. They weren't much alike. Mist needed more reassurance than Jess...and her insecurity came out as acting up.
Techyo That's a good thing I think.
AtvarHsial Have you ever written a character based on yourself?
Doranna Actually, the Jess character was a way to be working with horses at a time when I otherwise couldn't. Atvar, no.
Techyo I understand that too well.
Doranna Though lots of people don't believe this. What I do is method writing...there's a little of me in every character Maybe that's why it's so hard for me to write credible bad guys
JanCyberC Cool....even the antagonists?
JanCyberC LOL.
Doranna No, that's the problem
AtvarHsial LOL
Doranna I'm working on that. I'll write better antagonists when I can channel them through me
JanCyberC I don't know, it may be a little like actors playing a heavy...just have to be as mean as you want to be.
Doranna Although I'm starting to do that. Never stop working to get better...The problem is motivation
Techyo Aw the muse....
JanCyberC Doranna, a few of the authors we've talked to out here are currently in writing groups...are you with a workshop or mentor right now?
Doranna I find it difficult to discover the right motivation for a bad guy to be bad enough to create a big enough problem...Yes, I'm in a small group here locally
JanCyberC Excellent...F2F or virtual?
Doranna Really good group; Rochester has a big writing community Virtual. Often in my living room. We always eat a lot. Food gets thrown...
JanCyberC Do you find that having input from other writers is essential?
Doranna Yes. Not necessarily for an individual piece, but for general growth as a writer.
JanCyberC Jess's sequel, Changespell, came out in February '97. Are you planning a series?
Doranna Not really.
JanCyberC No?
Doranna There's the faint hint of a third book in my brain, but I've had mixed feedback from readers--many feel that Jess' story has been told I tend to agree
AtvarHsial Is that Rochester, New York?
JanCyberC It's just the trilogies and series seem to be all the rage these days...at least it seems that way.
Doranna OTOH, next April I'll have a book out set 300 years earlier, and I'...oops..I've got a sequel proposal in for that one right now.
Techyo Doranna I'm going to have to run off. I will be looking forward to reading the log of this. Take care it was nice meeting you!
JanCyberC BARRENLANDS? Techyo...thanks for dropping in.
Doranna I like to play around (bye techyo!)in the same world, and follow the events I set in motion
Techyo Sorry it couldn't be longer.
Doranna Or get them set up in the first place... Yep, that's BARRENLANDS.
JanCyberC Doranna...how hard was it to get your first novel published...how long did you have to submit it?
Doranna Complicated answer, really. Jess sold at the second place I sent it. But I'd been sending other work around for quite some time
JanCyberC REally! That's great!
AtvarHsial WOW, only 1 rejection?
JanCyberC Did you have an agent at the time?
Doranna And it took about 8 years fromt he time I decided to DO something with my writing, and really pursued it. Lots of other rejections, Atvar. Lots. Other books.
AtvarHsial Oh
Doranna No, I sold it on my own, and immediately acquired an agent for the contract
AtvarHsial Did the rejection depress you, or encourage you even more to suceed?
Doranna (I'm still trying to sell some of those other books!) Initially, I'd be depressed. But then I said, "I'll show YOU!" and off I'd go. Besides, I was always in the middle of another book. so I had other things to think about.
JanCyberC I hear ya. Doranna...I see several books listed on your website...but only one or two short stories...do you consider yourself a novelist first?
AtvarHsial Ah! A fighter!
Doranna JESS was turned down by two agents while I sold it on my own. Then it went off and won the Crook award. That was a nice Nyah! Yes, definitely a novelist first
JanCyberC LOLOL!
AtvarHsial LOL
Doranna Those short stories tried really hard to turn into small books!
AtvarHsial Remind me never to get on your bad side!
Doranna Success is the best revenge. That's my motto.
AtvarHsial Which is harder, novel or short story?
Doranna The only way I managed to keep the shorts under 5,000 words was to promise them I'd think about turning them into books later. Oh, gosh. Depends. Each form has its diffiocult points. Difficult I mean
AtvarHsial (Told you we ask the hard questions)
Doranna [g] For me, coming up with a short story idea on demand is tough. And keeping it from turning into a book is tough.
AtvarHsial Who is your biggest influence?
Doranna Biggest influence..
Ranger Well hello Ms Durgin. I've heard a lot of good things about you :)
Doranna Ann McCaffery, Katherine Kurtz, and Barbara Hambly
AtvarHsial Good choices!
Doranna Ranger, [blush] Re: the influence question, I have to say each author's influence mostly came from a period of work. Usually their earlier works. This makes me very wary as I develop my own career!
JanCyberC Doranna...earlier you said about the short stories you've written...that you promised them you'd turn them into novels later...do you mean the stories?
Doranna Yes. Silly as it seems. I also negotiate with characters.
JanCyberC No...I know a lot of authors talk to their characters.
Doranna When they try to run off at a right angle to my plot, I promise them I'll consider doing something like that later. That's how I came up with the sequel proposal for BARRENLANDS
AtvarHsial Do they listen?
JanCyberC LOL....excellent idea...I'll have to try that sometime. I just wanted to be sure who you were bargaining with there, 8^D thanks.
Doranna I meant silly, talking to my stories... Atvar, usually
Doranna Ehren's the only one who really gave me a problem...but then, he got his sequel, didn't he?
AtvarHsial TRUE!
Ranger I do that when I'm reading the stories :)
Doranna Well, it's at Baen. Whether it actually becomes a book is up to them.
Ranger Turn the characters into real people, that is ;)
Doranna Ranger, come up with side-plots? Oops, cross-post!
Ranger Let the characters come alive and have their own destinies :)
Doranna I find that happens only when I'm not satisfied with the way a writer has handled a book. But then, I've got plenty of my own characters to play with... They keep me busy enough!
Ranger I argue with the characters .. especially if they've done something dumb ;)
JanCyberC LOL!
AtvarHsial LOL
Doranna Ah. Well, it's the writer's job to give them the motivation to do the dumb thing so that the reader understands why it happens
JanCyberC Doranna...I think with two books published and two on their way you've stepped over from the up-and-coming author to an established author... or does it feel that way to you yet?
Doranna Um...three books on the shelves....
JanCyberC Oh sorry...:::slapping self::
Ranger LOL
Doranna [g] In some ways, I feel established. I don't think I'll truly feel established until I'm makinga living at it.
Ranger I thought all SF/Fantasy authors were millionairs!
Doranna SNORT!!
AtvarHsial LOL
Doranna I have a question for all of you. How much of an advance do you think a mid-list writer gets?
JanCyberC LOLOL...well I don't know... if fantasy authors are paid what SF authors are you've learned a lot of interesting ways to cook beans.
JanCyberC $2,000?
AtvarHsial $2,001?
Ranger About $10,000?
JanCyberC LOL ..:::thwapping Atvar:::
Doranna [g]
AtvarHsial OOPPS, sorry, I had a Price Is Right flashback!!!
Doranna $5,000 is a good solid sale for the first.
Ranger .::getting out Atvar's prozac for him:::.
AtvarHsial LOL
JanCyberC Really? I was talking low there.
Doranna Mid-list hangs around 10-12,000; I haven't made it there yet.
Doranna Now take out 15% for the agent.
JanCyberC 15!!!!
Doranna And then take out 38% for taxes (approx, that's for NYS)
JanCyberC Yikes!
AtvarHsial When you sold the story yourself, did you give yourself 15%?
JanCyberC So, in order to make a living as a Fantasy writer...even at midlist..you'd have to be cranking out two novels a year? Just to be poverty level?
AtvarHsial <=== New York City, Doranna
Doranna Doesn't leave one with a lot. Question #2--as a mid-lister with 3 books on the shelves, how much do you suppose I've gotten in royalties for each book? Jan, you got it.
Ranger On average ... $8-12,000 a year
JanCyberC I have *no* idea what kind of royalties are being paid.
Doranna (Atvar, no wonder you need 8 arms)
AtvarHsial LOL
Doranna So far I've received no royalties whatsoever.
Ranger Whoa!
Doranna Though I'm contracted for 8-10% above the advance.
AtvarHsial WOW
JanCyberC So you don't start earning royalties as soon as the book goes on sale then? A quota has to be hit first?
AtvarHsial Catch 22?
Ranger What's the quota?
Doranna Have I given you all a nicely bleak picture of what it's like to write in today's market?
AtvarHsial UM, YES!
Doranna Jan, right. The book has to sell enough copies to earn out the advance at that 8% rate
JanCyberC Yes...we had a pretty good idea that you weren't in it for your money or health...but for the love of the genre. You know I've heard rumors that once someone gets a name as a SF or Fantasy author they have difficulty selling anything mainstream...is this so?
Doranna When I get depressed about it all--and right now I'm borderline on losing my horse--I ask myself if I would continue to write if I didn't publish. The answer is unequivocably yes. Jan, could be. That's why pen names are used...
Ranger Ahh, thanks
Doranna At the least, having written in one genre offers you absolutely no advantage in selling in another.
Ranger ?
Doranna (another thing I've done this year is work a few hours at a bookstore...learned a LOT!) Ranger, are you waving your hand or just confused?
AtvarHsial LOL
Ranger Have you ever considered writing with another person as a co-author? ohh ohh ohh!
Doranna I've got a collaboration making the rounds of publishers right now (I don't even wanna KNOW about ohh ohh ohh!)
Ranger LOL!
AtvarHsial LOL
JanCyberC But do you think it will be easier for you to sell fantasy novels in the future because of those you've written so far?
AtvarHsial Mr. Kotter?
M (what's with the whispering)
Doranna And I've got a possible collaboration with another author in the works. Tricky things, collaborations.
Ranger Well, I was wondering if you used your own ideas, or if you used ideas from others too?
Doranna Jan, not to other publishers besides Baen. Most of them consider me to be a Baen Writer. But people DO switch around.
JanCyberC Hmmm....is it like the contracts Movie Studios used to have with their stars or something?
Doranna Unspoken
JanCyberC Ah. I see. That could be restrictive.
Doranna You've got to come up with a break-out book to switch, or get involved in a packager project or some other such thing. Collaboration, for instance... Ranger, my own ideas, really.
JanCyberC Your so good...yes Collaboration...do go on.
Ranger Shucks
Doranna It's just a way to come up with something different, put a new twist on your style and grab someome's interest. um, someone.
Doranna Ranger, I have enough to them to keep me pretty busy!!
Ranger Oh, I like your books .. I was just trying to squeek in an idea .. LOL
Doranna Yup, I know. [g] I recognize that when it happens! Ranger, I'd have a hard time taking someone else's idea and running with it. Not to mention the legal ramifications.
JanCyberC Hmmm...interesting...why would there be a problem?
Doranna Lawsuits, etc
JanCyberC Intellectual rights are pretty tough to prove though aren't they?
Doranna More than one Big Name Pro has had to scrap a project because a someone's kicked up a fuss.
JanCyberC I mean it's hard enough for some writers to get pirate copies of their stories off the web.
Doranna True. But we try... Anyway, take a look at the discussion page on Jennifer Roberson's web site.
JanCyberC Doranna...is there a group of writers...fantasy writers...similar to the SFWA? Thanks...will do Doranna....should be a link in our Moderator's picks I think. Or does the SFWA cover fantasy?
Doranna I'm maintaining that for her, adding new stuff... She's just had to put up an announcement asking people NOT to email her their ideas. Science Fiction & Fantasy Writers of America
JanCyberC .:::slapping myself around::: I assume then that you're a member.
Doranna Yep. 8) SFWA keep track of that sort of thing, officially...and the writing community alerts its members when there's a big problem with pirating on the web. There's an Argentinian e-zine that was ripping stuff off with abandon.
JanCyberC Yes...heard from a friend that they've been putting the heat on that site lately.
Doranna The editor has poutingly agreed not to continue pirating
JanCyberC Hopefully cyberlaw will advance far enough someday soon so that copyright infringement can be successfully prosecuted.
Doranna But as far as I know he's still selling back issues on CD!
JanCyberC Yikes.
Doranna It's pretty slippery. But I think the free speech issue is important to protect while we're at it.
JanCyberC Do you think that copyright protections for authors inhibit free speech?
Doranna Not at all. I think that zealous lawmakers, in an effort to stop copyright infringement, can go overboard. But sheesh, gimme my copyright!!
Ranger How long does it take for a copyright to go into effect?
Doranna It's immediate. You write it, it's yours. You can register it, of course.
JanCyberC Yes....copyright is immediate...but if you foresee litigation I believe you have to *register* the copyright. There's a nominal fee and not that long a wait.
Doranna Honestly, I haven't looked into it that far.
JanCyberC Your publisher usually handles that, don't they?'
Ranger Do you have someone that helps you get the stories to print?
Doranna Yep. Thats why I haven't looked into it. Hold on..monitor lost power...
JanCyberC Yikes!
Ranger Uh oh
Doranna I'm back. Grump.
JanCyberC Good...whew!
M loose cable?
Ranger It's those darn aliens .. I told them the chat wasn't until Monday night ;)
Doranna Knocked my photo scanner on the floor in the process. Grumph.
JanCyberC LOLOLOL. Yow!
Doranna Yes, loose cable. And yes, YOW!
JanCyberC Doranna...we usually only strap guests to the hot seat for an hour and we've already held you here longer than that.
AtvarHsial ouch!
Doranna I'm not going to think about it right now. So there. Kicking me out? [g]
JanCyberC If you feel you need to attend to bruised peripherals we'll understand...but if you can stay with us a bit longer...we'd love that too.
Ranger Doranna, do you have a special place that inspires you to write your stories?
Doranna I'm trying to avoid thinking about the loose peripherals for now... (gulp) Ranger, I used to, when I lived in VA. Deep in the mountains. Used to take walks with my horse in the back pasture. Or go on trail rides. Even now, riding is what recharges me for writing.
Ranger That sounds soothing .. and inspirational :)
Doranna Unless Duncan is in one of his leather jacket days...
Ranger LOL!
Doranna Duncan: I'm Tough! I'm a boy Lipizzan! I don't know that I've been gelded!
JanCyberC LOL! Doranna, Changespell, came out in February '97 and Barrenlands is due out in early '98...any idea when precisely? Or is that still up in the air?
Doranna Smart horses. Too smart. April.
JanCyberC Excellent...can you give us any idea about Changespell...a teaser?
Doranna It got pushed back from this fall so I could have Elmore *sob* and now I don't have him any more! You mean about BARRENLANDS?
JanCyberC Yes...sorry...Barrenlands.
Doranna Well, I'm not especially good at condensing my books into storyline blurbs. There's some info at my web site, of course. In general...um...It's got a really cool hero![g]
JanCyberC LOL!
Ranger LOL!
Doranna Actually, it's set 300 years before DUN LADY'S JESS, when magic technology is much less sophisticated. It's basically about a man who discovers that in order to avenge his dead king & friend, he has to betray a good friend. But he's not the sort to do that... Um...he has two cool horses! But they both stay horses...
JanCyberC 8^D...Doranna...you mention Magic *technology*....? So it's a "Technique" not an "Art"?
Doranna The society uses it to perform the same functions for which we depend on modern-day technology. I'm not sure I understand the Technique/art question. I suppose if I was looking at it in those terms, I would say it was both. Raw magic (the forbidden magic) is much more of an art.
JanCyberC Oh! Thanks.
AtvarHsial Is there 1 author that you would LOVE to write a story with?
Doranna The whole genesis of the 2 different types of magic is addressed in the Barrenlands book(s). Atvar, I haven't really thought of it. The author I'm currently talking project ideas with, I suppose! That would be A.C. Crispin. But we've got to find the time/sell the project...
AtvarHsial V...That A.C. Crispin?
Doranna Finding the time isn't as hard as finding it during the same time period! Atvar, yes
JanCyberC Tres cool...more SF or Fantasy?
Doranna She's got the new SW series out now. They're neat! Young adult fantasy
AtvarHsial COOL! Can't wait to see how that turns out!
JanCyberC I see listed as something you're working on is...A Bitch In Time, LOL what a name, an anthology you're contributing too? Working on?
Doranna Well, hopefully we'll get to work together. I think it'd be fun. Short story for an anthology.. DID YOU SAY "CHICKS?!", a second volume to the CHICKS IN CHAINMAIL antho Fun!
JanCyberC Superb...I assume it's pointed towards hard-headed female protagonists in time travel stories?
Doranna Exactly!
JanCyberC I *have* to get the first anthology...I've seen it and it looks fun.
Doranna It is.
JanCyberC When will the new anthology be out?
Doranna You gotta love it, really. Esther F. had a lot of guts to push for it! I was gonna say balls but decided that in this case...
JanCyberC Well yeah...LOL....guts is pretty asexual.
AtvarHsial LOL
Ranger LOL!
Doranna Anyway, it's my first fantasy humor piece.
JanCyberC Any idea when the new anthology will hit the shelves? Or is it out there already?
Doranna Um...let's see. Early '98 I believe (publishing lead times...sigh)
JanCyberC Excellent. Then there are a couple of books of yours we'll be looking for in the new year.
Doranna Gulp...my modem just made a noise..though I'd been kicked off...
Ranger Folks, I got to run. But it was a pleasure meeting you Doranna :)
AtvarHsial bye Ranger
JanCyberC Doranna...we should let you go take care of your peripherals here.
Doranna Yes, BARRENLANDS and the sequel to TOUCHED BY MAGIC, which is WOLF JUSTICE
Ranger Good luck in the future :)
Doranna alas, that's true
JanCyberC Thank you so *very* much for coming out to answer our questions this evening.
Doranna Two of my peripherals are dogs who are hanging hopefully around the back door...
AtvarHsial Yes, do come back
Doranna Oh, you're welcome. It was fun!
AtvarHsial If you ever come to New York City for a book signing, I hope to meet you
Doranna Aurgh, the scanner. Okay, here I go...
JanCyberC Goodnight! Thanks!
Doranna Booksignings--another whole story!!
TechCyberC Doranna would you like to do introduce yourself?
Doranna Gosh, if I had my brains on tonight I would have been anticipating that one.
TechCyberC ROFL
BlackCyberC We don't need no stinking brains here
SenorCYFY Yo quiero Taco Bell!
Doranna Let's see--I'm a fantasy writer with a handful of books out and a lot more waiting in my head. (Oh, I love the TB commercial!)
SenorCYFY me too!
dreamer Hey RIK
SquidRIK Hello everyone - Let the games begin... :)
dreamer I always think of JD's mom's chiuaua...
BlackCyberC LOL
Doranna In any event, I think Tech's intro did a pretty good job.
dreamer when I see that commercial
TechCyberC Doranna what's the best thing about writting?
Doranna spellcheckers
SenorCYFY LOL
TechCyberC Good point.
BlackCyberC LOL
SquidRIK lol
Doranna hee hee
Dayahla Ah...okay...fascinating question #1: Ma'am, when did writing stop being a hobby, and become "real"?
SenorCYFY too bad they don't have typo checkers
Doranna Hmmm... Define "real"
TechCyberC Folks feel free to post your questions after Doranna has answered the last one.
Doranna It's pretty slippery...(Yes, I'll get back to Tech's question after this one)
dreamer Hey RAAIN
SquidRIK Wouldnt spelcheckers be a problem doing SF/Fantasy? Is This a word is that - Skip Skip Skip:)
Dayahla Ah, as in: when did you feel it was your direction,as opposed to something for fun?
RAAIN Hello dreamer
Doranna Squid--absolutely. Day, it was after I got out of college, moved into some very remote mountains, couldn't find a job, and needed goals
RAAIN How is everyone
TechCyberC Must be an interesting "Special" database for the checker, RIK.
Doranna I was always writing steadily before that, but that's when I decided to Do Something With It.
SenorCYFY Not being able to find a job would put some real pressure on a person to be creative
Doranna There =weren't= any jobs....
TechCyberC So writing isn't a JOB?
Doranna I was a waitress for 3 days. Had to drive 45 minutes just to get to town. Ferget it.
SenorCYFY LOL
Dayahla Ah, good career move, Doranna!
Doranna No, writing's not a job. It's an avocation, and a vocation, but it's not a job. Now, dealing with publishers--THAT's a job
SquidRIK lol
Janice LOL
BlackCyberC LOL
Dayahla LOL
Doranna Tech, the best thing about writing is...well, it's either the high you get while writing first draft, or the weird creative fugue state when a book is Becoming. Well, okay, seeing it on the shelf for the first time is pretty cool, too
BlackCyberC Who is your biggest influence?
Doranna It changes
SenorCYFY Becoming?..as when you know it's going to be publishable...or when it's actually being published?
TechCyberC Sub question on what Black asked include other than authors.
Doranna When I was younger in the craft, it was Hambly and McCaffery and Kurtz. Other than authors--my time in the mnountains. I loved them; they really brought out the creative side in me.
TechCyberC Interesting thanks.
Doranna Now, it's when I work with horses. It centers me, and takes me to the place in my brain where books happen
TechCyberC So that explains the horses in the books?
Doranna Senor, I meant when a book is coming together in my head
SenorCYFY Ok..thanks
Doranna Tech, I suppose
TechCyberC I like that "Becoming a book"
Doranna I can write a book without horses...but if there's a horse hanging around, it's got to have a name and a personality.
dreamer .
Doranna Plus it's got to be charmingly disobedient, because they all are.
BlackCyberC How do you choose a name for your horses?
TechCyberC Your horses are very real are they based on real ones.
Doranna Ohh, I'm SOOO glad you asked!
BlackCyberC LOL
Doranna ACTION rubs hands together
TechCyberC ROFL
Janice LOL. GCMTA
Dayahla lol
Doranna I'm running a contest on my home page right now, to choose a name for my next horse character. He won't be a character like Jess was, just a supporting player, but he still needs a name. And since I'm basing him on my own horse, I'm having a hard time coming up with a name.
RAAIN I think I'm in the wrong chatroom
Doranna Tech, the horse I just referred to is the first to be based an an actual horse. But Raain, it's a GOOD chat room.
TechCyberC Hard to imagine they could feel any more real.
BlackCyberC with a GREAT GOH
Doranna ACTION preens
Dayahla lol
Doranna There are bits and pieces of actual horses in them, I guess
Janice 8^)...you're running a contest? Cool!
Doranna Sky is someone I knew
TechCyberC That's the hourse in TOUCHED BY MAGIC?
Doranna Yup, will send a copy of BARRENLANDS to whoever comes up with the name I use. Tech, yeah
dreamer RAf....Hiya
BlackCyberC Autographed?
crRAfrCC hi Folks
Doranna A SB I worked with briefly.
TechCyberC I knew a simular horse.
SquidRIK I pick the name HORACE for the way it sounds and its sound meaning could denote personality - For a horse:)
Doranna Black, sure, autographed.
TechCyberC Yeah and get kicked by the horse, RIK. Anyway....
BlackCyberC ACTION wonders if Black is a good name for a horse
TechCyberC Been done, Black.
dreamer as in Black Beauty
Doranna Oh, gosh, not choosing names tonight. Go the the web site, hint hint. There's a whole page devoted to it. Plus to guessing the critter I'm skinning in one of the photos, but no one's gotten right yet. heh heh. It's not an easy one to guess
dreamer what's the URL...might I ask?
SquidRIK Skining creatures in this day and age - You'll have Greenpeace after you:)
Doranna Black, the horse is grey...
BlackCyberC you just did, dreamer
Doranna Not for this one....
dreamer oh
BlackCyberC
Doranna http://www.sff.net/people/doranna
TechCyberC Good deal I'l have to check that out.
dreamer book-marked it...thanks..8^)
Doranna you're welcome!
TechCyberC Ok since you brought it up. How do you feel the net will afect authors?
BlackCyberC Will you be coming to New York for a book signing?
TechCyberC affect even.
Doranna I'm IN NY
SquidRIK Page loading up now - Thx
BlackCyberC where?
dreamer effect ?
Doranna The net... Well, I think the potential for reaching out to readers is tremendous
Doranna Black, western
BlackCyberC I live in New York City
Doranna What'll happen with publishing on the net, etc, is an entirely different matter, and I'm not sure I have much vision about that. I sure do like the on-line bookstores, though. Ah...another world, Black
SquidRIK ...
BlackCyberC LOL
Doranna As for the net, I really enjoy the opportunity to chat like this, since my con attendence for the last couple years and probably the next couple has been very low WorldCon, though. I'll make worldcom con
Janice Is convention attendance as important for Fantasy authors as for SF Authors?
Doranna Yes, ooh, yes IMHO, anyway especially if you're mid-list...
crRAfrCC .
TechCyberC Is it like a "good old boy network" type thing?
Doranna Well...it's a mix
dreamer .
Doranna First of all, at cons, you get to see/interact with readers. Second, you DO get to see the other people in the biz. I've been to a few business dinners (whew, the food!), but mostly its just touching base with the other writers, be they SF or F.
crRAfrCC Kind of off the subject, but you mentioned working with horses..Do you ride English or Western?
Doranna It's how we know what's going on in the biz in general, and get word of problems, and pass gossip around dressage
crRAfrCC just curious, thanks
Doranna sure! a dangerous question, you see, because once I get started on horses...
crRAfrCC LOL
SquidRIK At the web site now - Is the cover of Barrenlands a DKSweet picture - Looks like it but not sure
Doranna then it WOULDN'T be the SF chat room!
TechCyberC Well maybe Doranna but horses are important. And actually this is more a SF/Fantasy/ Horror room
Doranna Tech, you must swear you'll delete my indiscreet comments for the log!
TechCyberC Sure thing Doranna.
Dayahla ACTION points to Tech's crossed fingers (don't trust him, Doranna)
BlackCyberC LOL
Janice Shame there's not such a thing as interchangeable dust-jackets.
Doranna At any rate, it would still be a really marketable cover if the printers hadn't done a wretched job of printing it
SquidRIK ol jan
Doranna Not quite bad enough to make them pay for a reprint...
Janice Do you feel that cover art has that great an impact on the sale of your books?
Doranna yep
Doranna It does if you don't have a big name already.
Doranna For instance, I loved my first cover. Mostly because the horse is correct...
SquidRIK I dunno - I'll read a book just because there was a DKS cover - Got trppped into a Jordan book that way:)
crRAfrCC And you don't usually have any say over cover art?
TechCyberC Do you think readers really expect the cover to represent the book? Or just draw the eye?
Doranna I really like the concept the artist used. But he also made it seem like a pseudo-medeival fantasy, and it wasn't depends on how educated the reader is about the industry...RIK, ha! And I heard from people who almost DIDN'T buy TBM because of the pastel-colored unicorns on the front. Thought they'd get fluff in the book.
TechCyberC I'm still looking for the unicorns in that BTW>
Janice Ah.
SquidRIK This is what I get from the cover - The wizard reminds me of Chalker, The Horses and the warrior of Anthony
Doranna The cover for its sequel is gorgeous, but again is unicorns...
crRAfrCC Who makes the decision for Cover Art?
Doranna In both books, the unicorns have a cameo role. marketing
crRAfrCC ah...no wonder
BlackCyberC Cool...Cameo Unicorns!
Doranna RIK, those are both writers with lots of DKS covers, so that's no surprise...I don't think the writing is reminiscent of either. They both have very masculine styles. And I, er...don't
SquidRIK lol
Doranna But still, that's okay, if it gets people to pick up the book...
crRAfrCC Is your work Contemporary fantsy..that is set in the modern or semi modern world...or is more medievel?
Doranna JESS is more contemporary. The others...are low tech of various types, but resonate more with pioneer America, as afar as I'm concerned most of my stuff does. But not so strongly that if you're thinking medieval stuff, you might not continue to think medieval...if that makes any sense
dreamer When did you first begin writing?
crRAfrCC I can see why ,,,noe you might of been uposet with that ype of cover..unicorns and all
Doranna dreamer...grade school
crRAfrCC sheesh..typos run amuck
dreamer oooh
BlackCyberC LOL
Doranna I guess! What DID you say?
SquidRIK .
TechCyberC Has DUN LADY'S JESS been compared to Barbra Hambly much? Frankly it's the best alternate magic world I've read in years.
Doranna the unicorns are a powerful part of the story. But not the be-all and end-all. And not fluff!
crRAfrCC I said , that I could see why you might not have kiked a medievel cover...baiscally
Doranna ACTION blushes, secretly pleased
crRAfrCC I give up!
BlackCyberC LOL
Doranna LOL!
Dayahla LOLOL
BlackCyberC ACTION has the hic-cups laughing so hard
TechCyberC (RA has Tech Typo fever)
crRAfrCC have gotten faster...but worse in a way:::Sigh:::
dreamer
Doranna Tech, no, I've never had the comparison. It would certainly be a flattering one
TechCyberC I made it often as I read it for what that's worth and was glad of it.
Doranna I'm not entirely sure WHO to "compare" my stuff to in order to give someone a feel for it. Thank you!
SquidRIK If you had to decribe your work by relating to other works/ authors how would you decribe it?
Doranna RIK, that's what I meant. I really don't know
crRAfrCC The pioneer aspect ...maybe somewhat like Card?
TechCyberC ROFL the answer before the question! Gota love this.
Doranna It's hard to step back and do that...
SquidRIK S orry - cant see text while I type - Mr Hunt and Peck here:)
Doranna Hmm..Card? I dunno. Comparisons are more than minor content issues
Janice Doranna, in a past Q&A you said "I need to be able to maniupulate my settings a bit. Fantasy is most conducive to that." Can you give us a 'fer-instance' of a manipulation that was necessary?
Doranna Oh my goodness I'm being quoted to myself
Janice <==is very bad at that. Sorry.
TechCyberC
dreamer Hey Verb
Doranna Sure. In TOUCHED BY MAGIC, I...well, I did some upsetting things to my protagonist.
SquidRIK 1st sign of fame? having your words thrown back at you:)
Verbatim Hello all!
crRAfrCC Gotta watch her, Doranna...;-)
TechCyberC Almost killed him.
Doranna And then I wanted him totally out of his element... so boom, I made up translocation Just like that, he's in another place. And can't easily get back because of the distance. And, er...in JESS I wanted to explore what it would be like to adjust to being human after being a horse. If you can do that without magic... you're a better writer than I!
BlackCyberC LOL
Janice LOL...thanks!
Doranna Basically, I have characters in my head and I'd like to explore some experience with them, and move them through some growth. You can do lots of interesting things with magic to base that adventure around.
SquidRIK Hmm Sure Chalker could do that at the WELL:)
Doranna Not familiar with that one, RIK. I've read some of his work, but not all.
TechCyberC Doranna I've often asked why so many people will argue with the magic aspect of that when if you'd used a transporter they might accept it and get more into the idea of how the horse/human might feel. Any thoughts?
SquidRIK S'OK Dor - being silly
Doranna Tech...can you ask that a different way? I don't quite follow maybe because I haven't had people argue with the magic of it?
TechCyberC Oh just maybe some people get distracted by the means of the horse becoming human and never get to the meat of the story.
Doranna Then they probably don't choose to read a lot of fantasy in the first place...
Dayahla Suspension of disbelief?
TechCyberC Point.
dreamer .
Doranna cute, dreamer!
Janice Ah. So many will argue with magic which is presented as magic...while they'll accept magic presented as technology?
Doranna Anyway, I've never had people argue my magic to me.
SquidRIK ...
Janice Do you have basic rules about how you use magic in your stories?
Doranna I would think only people who don't want to suspend disbelief in the first place...Sure. I've got to have a system that makes sense to me.
TechCyberC Right and why would they read it?
Doranna abracadabra doesn't do it.
TechCyberC Has to be internally consistant?
Doranna Ronsen in TBM was basically disassembling atoms...Tech, absolutely
Dayahla .
BlackCyberC Or, as Bugs Bunny said "Abra ca Pokus" and "Pokus cadabra"
Doranna Nope, those wouldn't work, either
dreamer ....just what I was thinking...Black..
Doranna if the magic doesn't have consistency and limits, then none of the character dilemmas are real.
Janice LOL
Verbatim Right
TechCyberC Well put.
Doranna I've heard from a number of readers who were hoping I would pull of a certain miracle at the end of TBM...but there was no way...
Doranna I'm surprised anyone had any hope! ACTION is ruthless
TechCyberC LOL
BlackCyberC LOL
SquidRIK ...
Janice Do you set out the limits of your magic's reach before going into a book, or is it consistent throughout your novels?
Doranna Do you mean, am I using the same system of magic for each book, or am I developing a new one for each book? I develop a new system for each world. I need to start re-using worlds more often. Making up an in-depth, complex and consistent system of magic ain't easy!
Janice Yes. I'm sorry, but yes, basically...do you have one set of "rules" for all...or do you change them for different novles? Thanks!
Verbatim Or...when you start a book, do you have limits set...or do they develop as the story does?
Janice Thanks Verbatim, that was the other part of the question I didn't express well.
Doranna I really need to know how the magic works before I start the book. It makes it MUCH easier to develop plot that way. And with that structure, I can be more organic with my plot development I've done it without figuring the magic very well, and I don't think the result is as strong.
TechCyberC How much is the magic the story and how much is it simply a device?
Doranna ACTION had to rewrite TBM many times...Depends on the story, I think
SquidRIK "A Bitch In TIme" a lot of connotations with that - How do you feel about that?
Doranna That's really a good question. oh, dear, another question I don't quite understand.Tech, I think I tend to use my magic as a device. Others may use it differently. RIK...how do I feel about what exactly?
dreamer I gotta go too....good night ..It was nice meeting you Doranna...
SquidRIK A woman using the word BITCh which is often derogatory and unpleasant
dreamer bye everybody
Doranna bye, dreamer!
BlackCyberC ACTION waves to dreamer
Doranna ah...
Dayahla ACTION waves to Dreamne
Doranna Well, when you've worked with dogs long enough it kind of takes on a different light...Do you mean how do I feel about the fact that =I= used the B-word so freely?
SquidRIK True - but it is used to denegrate in humans
TechCyberC Isn't usage what's important with that?
SquidRIK Though I LOVE strong independant women!
Doranna Ah...see, your connatation of it I DO find offensive. Since I was only ever referring to a female dog, I didn't even think about it. Although I have to admit I love the scandelous feel of the title.
SquidRIK OK - I understand Now
Verbatim LOL
TechCyberC ROFL
SquidRIK LOL
Dayahla lol
TechCyberC Interest grabber that.
BlackCyberC LOL
Doranna RIK, even when I think of bitch in the derogatory sense, I don't give it the meaning you mentioned... words are like that. slippery, sometimes
TechCyberC And constantly changing in usage.
Doranna true
SquidRIK true
TechCyberC Do you feel you may have input in those changes?
TechCyberC Or how does it make you feel rather.
Doranna I'll use "bitch" among some of my friends in the same way that (no one hit me) some black men will call each other "nigger" and find it acceptable. Although I think it's different...when I use it with my friends, it's a way of laughing at myself. Input into the changes?
TechCyberC Right
Doranna Sure, you never know how fiction will affect the world. I don't think I HAVE yet, but I write as responsibly as I can so don't worry about it
TechCyberC Anther great answer.
SquidRIK Authors (Eliison, Chalker,etc)are saying its hard to publish andsales are down - Opinion?
Doranna By that I mean I don't present violence, etc, in a manner that makes it seem positive.
Verbatim And what is *responsibly*...I mean, is it like self-censorship?
Doranna Ehren in BARRENLANDS does some violent things, but it's always pretty grim. RIK--strong agreement. Verb, not really. In that it's not something I have to think about. Just part of my approach to life as well as writing
Verbatim Maybe you're just a responsible person. :)
TechCyberC Aw that begs the question how much of your art reflects you?
Doranna all of it. Well, seriously...that's not to be interpreted as "this is myself, showing up through my character". But it's all filtered through me, so in some aspect, it always reflects me. Maybe other people write differently...I dunno
TechCyberC Do you read your works after some time has passed to see where you were then or some such?
Doranna I usually don't need to. All I usually have to do is look at them. It all comes back! It's like hearing a song on the radio from your younger days, and you know what you were doing the last time you heard it, even though it's years ago...
SquidRIK How do you feel about SF/F tv/screen depictions?
Doranna SF has had some good stuff. Fantasy...sigh WIZARDS & WARRIORS was fun, while it lasted.
SquidRIK My Favorite screen fantasy - Ladyhawke:)
Doranna yes!!
Verbatim Mine too RIK
TechCyberC Agreed Doranna any input into why Fantacy hasn't transfered well?
Doranna have watched that movie so many times...I don't think the people who've produced it have had the right vision.
TechCyberC I've wondered if they even read it.
Doranna They get bogged down in the trite, and forget to reach for the wonder And they haven't read enough to KNOW they're doing Trite
SquidRIK agree - WONDER:)
Dayahla Hmm..wonder is a necessity!
Doranna NEVERENDING STORY was good, too.
TechCyberC Stick on the details and miss the story. Too bad.
Doranna the sequel...well, the less said, the better. Sometimes you wonder what happens to people's brains... Oh! DRAGONHEART!
Verbatim They just don't *get it*
Doranna I almost forgot.
BlackCyberC .
SquidRIK Not brains, wallets:)
Doranna Verb, no, I don't think they do. I get the feeling that most fantasy films have been done by people who said, "Let's do a fantasy. No one's done one of those for a while>"
Verbatim Yeah..they have no *romance* about them
Doranna "Oh, gee, what shall we make our fantasy about?" Verb, exactly
SquidRIK DUH Sowrd is good - DUH:)
TechCyberC Is there an underlying feel that most fantasy has?
Doranna BEASTMASTER!
BlackCyberC You called?
Verbatim LOL
SquidRIK LOL too
Doranna Tech, I think good fantasy has an (LOL!!!BLACK) underlying sense of wonder to it, yes. Or maybe I should say, the fantasies that really stick with us...
SquidRIK Doranna, pleased to meet you. Will definately look for your books. Goodnight everyone, I'm out of here - Later:)
Doranna I won't claim all my books do that, but I try. Bye, RIK!
BlackCyberC ACTION waves to SquidRIK
Verbatim Bye RIK
Dayahla Nite, Rik!
Verbatim It seems that fantasy has a very rigid black and white--good and evil. Is that right? I mean do you see it as so?
Doranna Not necessarily, no. I think there are certain common fantasy tropes that follow that pattern. I try not to...but let's just say that's been part of my growth experience as a writer...
Verbatim So in the beginning, it was more so for you as a writer?
Doranna I think so. Because I've had a hard time getting a grip on WHY people do what other people perceive of as bad things. And in order for there to be threat and tension in the novel, one needs SOMEONE to do something harmful, no matter what their motives
Janice As a source of "conflict"?
Doranna I have the soundtrack to DRACULA and I have to listen to it when I'm trying to make someone menacing. Jan, yes
TechCyberC Folks Doranna has been with us for over 1.25 of an hour! Any last questions?
Janice Whoa! Tempus Fugit!
Doranna Tempus Fugit?
Dayahla Hmmmm..poor thing! You have done well, Doranna!!
TechCyberC (We don't want to wear those fingers down to where they can't type. )
Verbatim Yes you have--wish I'd come sooner.
Doranna ACTION gasps with fatigue
Janice Latin...poorly spelled probably. Time Flys
Doranna oh!
BlackCyberC LOL
TechCyberC Spelled poorly or a joke.
Doranna Guess I'll wander off and reward myself with pop tarts. (the exciting life of a writer)
BlackCyberC Cherry Frosted???
Janice I suppose more appropriate/literal translation would be time is a fugitive...::shrug:::
Doranna cinnemon
TechCyberC Doranna thanks ever so much for an interesting chat!
Verbatim Time Flys--sounds like the title of a horror movie...Flies that travel through time.
BlackCyberC lol
Doranna oh gawd now I'll have nightmares...
Janice LOL! Pop Tarts! Good to know someone else has an appreciation of processed food products.
BlackCyberC ACTION LOVES pop tarts
TechCyberC And keep writing.
Doranna ACTION licks her lips
Doranna toasted!
Janice Thanks Doranna...very informative!.:::applause:::
Verbatim :::applauding::::
Doranna Ah, the doggies are rousing. off I go. You're very welcome--I always have fun here!
BlackCyberC Come back soon!
TechCyberC Aw drop by anytime.
Dayahla ACTION waves!!
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